Nicholas, a person obviously well schooled in Greek Orthodoxy, made this challenge to me in a comment:

" What about the Greek Orthodox Church?  Do you conclude that they, too, are pagan?"

Well, to be honest, I have not done much study about Orthodoxy.  What I have seen in my trip to the middle east last year, would lead me to believe that they are.  

Nicholas challenged me to a discussion.  Today is 6/30/09 and it will be my final response to Nicholas, whom I conclude is a false teacher.  This coversation is the foiurth click command line.  If you will click the command lines below, you can download the discussions as they are completed.  The format is PDF so you can save them to a file and use them however.

 Click here for discussion one         Click here for discussion two     Click here for discussion three

 Click here for final discussion     

How can we trust someone who does not really know the Catholic Doctrine? To proclaim that the ONLY Church is the Catholic Church does not mean that anyone who is not Catholic is condemned, but that all who are saved because they are consciously or unconsciously joined the Catholic Church (e.g. see "Crossing the Threshold of Hope"). "There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing." (Bishop Fulton Sheen)

Fabio, you know not whether I "really know" Catholic Doctrine or not.  You have not read the book.

Using Benedict's quote that other Christian denominations are not churches but "ecclesial communities and therefore do not have the means of salvation," clearly demonstrates Romes historic position that anyone outside of the Roman church is damned.  Further, according to the Roman catechism, one is damned if

• he/she does not believe in the sacrements
• is not baptized by the Roman Church,
• Does not go through Roman confirmation
• does not partake in the Eucharist/Mass
• Does ot receive the last rights.

Fabio, the above catagorization comes from the cathechism of Trent.  Yes Fabio, old Trent, which was reafirmed by Vatican II.

Threshold of Hope?  This staement is no more than a scent remover for the stench of Roman thought. It is illusory and has NO MEANING.  How can one know Roman doctrine when what is taught or stated is meaningless?

Here is the ONLY Threshold of Hope, Fabio, the only one. 

• All of mankind in the natural state is dead in trespasses and sins, alone in the world and withou God.  (The alone, and without God statement means atheist, just like the end of Cain in Genesis 4)
• He is spiritually dead, even though He walks
• God sent His Son, Jesus Christ to die for the world (this means to pay for all of man's sin and sins by the sacrifice of His life)
• All who believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The message above is primarily from John 3.  You should read it, believe in Christ and flee the Roman church which is leading you straight to hell.

Oh, yes, read the book, it will give you many more examples of Roman heresy, and contrasted with this, it will show you God's love as He has revealed it to all of us in His word, the Bible.

Larry Ball

 Sister V - 

Heresy of Baptism-

Understand that no one in the bible was ever saved by anything other than faith and faith alone! Faith that came by hearing the word of God.  Adam, Eve, Abel and others prior to the flood were saved by faith and faith alone.  Job “I know that I will see my Redeemer” was saved by faith and faith alone, just like those above.  Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him has righteousness.  Again faith and faith alone.  David, Joshua, the prophets, and the list goes on and on.  People sanctified by God through faith.

but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved),

Ephesians 2:4

For by Grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8

Funny thing, isn’t it?  Here we have Paul, writing Scripture (the Word of God) as affirmed by Peter, and writing about salvation.  Nothing is said about baptismal regeneration. One is saved by faith and faith alone.

Again, in the Scripture of the Letter to the Romans, Chapt 2, Verse 7

  
for there is no respect of persons with God

This means that everybody will be treated justly and under the same terms.  God will not require some to be saved by baptism, others by circumcision, and still others by faith.  The belief in baptismal regeneration is a heresy against the Godhead!

Jeus says in John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosovever believeth in Him, should not perish but have everlasting life.

Sister, are YOU a "whosover?"

Consider the word, salvation.  Is salvation temporary?  Can one be saved and then lose their salvation?  Can our Savior save you only temporary and still be The Savior He is procliamed to be?  Can you be saved through baptism, lose that salvation, but be resaved by some other sacrament?  No, sister, no!  No to all of these things.  You can be saved by faith alone and that salvation is permanent.  The Greek word for salvation means to be healed, cured, ensured of salvation.  It is a permanent term.  It means once saved alway saved because first to last it is a work of God.

 Again, Sister, are you a "whosoever?" 

Tell God you want to believe in Christ the right way. Tell Him that if you are a sinner doomed to hell, that you need His help to change course.  Pray to Him that He will reveal the truth to you.  Tell Him that you want to be a "whosoever" so that you can have eternal life.

Heresy #3: Apostolic Succession

As I have pointed out in my book, in the section related to this and the appendix, apostolic succession is false for many reasons, but here is one particulary glaring reason.  So many of the popes and were evil, and, though I did not point this out, so were the priests and “bishops/archbishops/cheep cheeps (cardinals) No, I do not have ANY respect for their offices. 

Consider that even today these bishops, (alleged to be the picks of the Holy Spirit) continue their depravity.  The now President of Paraguay, Lugo, had at least two, probably 3 or more, femaie bed patners when bishop.  He had children by two or more of these lovlies. 

"Celibacy is flawed,"  he sniffled.

This "Holy Spirit" picked Bishop is a fornicator.  Fornication is a sin denounced in many places in the Bible. Picked by the Holy Spirit indeed.   This is just one of the many ways that Rome tries to show God as a liar.

Aside from this Scripture clearly states that apostolic succession it is not possible.  Again this is revealed in what Peter points out to be scripture, the writings of Paul.

An Apostle is one who has seen Jesus in the flesh, and to whom He appeared after His resurrection.  Since no such person exists today, there are no apostles!  Again, Scripture as attested to by Peter and written in Paul’s 1st epistle to the Corithains.  Chapter 15:3 ff

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. For I am the least of the apostles,

Veronica, does ALL mean ALL?   Or a better way of putting it, what does All mean?  The Greek word is "pasin".  It is the genitive of  "pantos".  It means “all, full, absolute".   Since He appeared to all, the whole gang as described above, they ain’t no mo.  All the apostles were physically dead and in the presence of the Lord by the first part of the 2nd century.

Rome’s claim to apostolic succession is a lie. But that is not a new revelation.

Sister V.

The Roman Church maintains and you affirm that the real presence of Christ is in the "consecrated" wafer.  To maintain such clearly makes God to be a liar. Do we not still agree that God is not a man that He should lie?  (Numbers 23:19)  If we do still agree on this point, and if I can substantiate that the Eucharist - Mass liturgy or "alter drama"  makes God to be a liar, then you will concur that it cannot be, that God cannot lie and the positon of the Roman church is a lie.  You do agree to my terms, do you not?

  
Every lady in this land
has twenty nails upon each hand
five, and twenty on hands and feet.
All this is true, without deceit.

--The Real Mother Goose

Woops, you say?  The little rhyme is deceitful?   Is that not just your interpretation?  Do you have a right to make such a determination?  You would not question the good Mother Goose, would you? Think of the generations of kids who have sat at her feet.

No, you do not have such a right --- that is, unless you are a rational person.  Are you rational?  What is your best guess, do you think that I, too, am rational?

"Sister V,

Well here is a little poem for you to begin your week with.
.

If I at dust upon my window gaze,

must I, for others,  declare it haze?

If this dust is in form arrayed,

causing some to be amazed,

Dust it was,

“dost” not dust

 continue it to be?

 But, say some, “No, tis Mary see!”

Do turn I then, abashed by these,

and jilted by reason, to flee?

Why do I bring this up?   In Springfield, MA,   On one of the windows of the local catholic hospital, someone made a “private” interpretation that he dust on the window was an apparition of Mary.  Management pulled the window and have sent for “experts” to determine if the window is to be venerated or not.  

Here we are back at the issue of rationality.  I have a tile floor and wall in our main bathroom.  The tiles are very interesting as when I look at them I can make out various images.  Several images may be deduced from one single image.  What would happen if one of the “faithful” were to use my bathroom and, while contemplating this tile should see an apparition of Mary?  Should that tile be pulled from my bathroom and born “corpus Christi” style through the city, or should I, perhaps, sell my house to the local diocese so that they can enshrine it?  Maybe I should just start a business and sell tickets to the “faithful” and allow them come into my bathroom and there, prostrating themselves before the image, sween and swoon, producing a PRIVATE VISION of Mary holding the infant Jesus..

Wow, what news it would be, would it not? I think Lincoln might begin to be competition for Fatima.

Sister, you say that ghosts are not a problem with the catholic church as you pray for the dead.  Apparitions of Mary, Jesus, or any of the so called saints are apparitions of ghosts!  You have these commonly. In a book written by a Roman Catholic, entitled “Legends of the Holy Sacrament” hundreds of such pretended visions have been recorded.  I intend to touch on these later.

Why is it that the Roman church will not allow the “faithful” to read and interpret scripture, privately,  but willingly promotes ecstatic visions?  You cannot say that the Roman Church does not, because I have in my possession, the book of Ignatius Loyola’s “Exercises.”   This is the training manual for the novitiate to the Society of Jesus.  Frankly all it is about is how a person can sween and swoon thereby establishing direct and perhaps visual contact with Mary, Jesus, and or one of the saints.  There are many such exercises recorded in Roman history.  Francis of Assisi, Dominic the first head of the inquisition are two very famous swoonies who made several such contacts with God or the goddess

Now if one is able to establish contact with Christ by sweening and swooning, will not Christ say something to him/her as they confront each other?  Christ is GOD!  Anything Christ says are the Words of God.  The Word of God is Scripture.  If some swoony gets these words and repeats them, they need not be heeded, right?  Why?  Because when the swoony repeats them, this then is the swoony’s private interpretation.  Is that not so?

Since this IS so, then you must disregard the whole apparition since nothing can be quoted as the quote would be the private interpretation of scripture. The whole exercise was therefore pointless.  Why would God do anything that is pointless?  Certainly He is not having an issue of too much time on his hands, is He?

Okay, the Roman church does quote and believe the product of seeening and swooning.  Rome believes, In fact, that such ecstasies are more beneficial to her and her faithful, than is Scripture.  To me this appears to be the honest outcome of Rome’s foundational belief.  The God of Scripture and the god of Rome are two different beings.

Now I am sure that you, Sister, and I will agree on one thing: God is not a fool and therefore HE will not engage in pointless activity.  Since this is so, then why did He reveal Himself through Scripture? 

1. Did He only want certain people in the Church to know and understand what He has revealed?
2. Was He not capable of revealing Himself in such a matter that His chosen would understand Him?
3. Since He indwells His people (this is the New Testament, Veronica, the New Covenant – where He indwells and teaches us from within and we feed upon His word) is He not capable of leading them, in His own way, at the pace best suited for the believer? 

Fye, fye, on those that say otherwise, Fye, Sister, Fye!

We have discussed how Peter identifies the writings of Paul as being Scripture.  We have looked at those letters and have seen that the individual believer is supposed to read them and apply them to themselves.

Paul says :

 2 Timothy 3:16-17
 
Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness. That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.

Notice, please, these facts:

1. The author of Scripture is God.
2. Scripture is profitable for
a. Teaching
b. Reproof
c. Correction
d. Instruction in righteousness

To what purpose?

1. That the man of God
a. Be complete
b. Completely furnished unto every good work

Complete, Sistera, complete!   Philippians 1:6 states that He who is in us will complete his work of perfection until the day of Christ.  2:13 states that the believer has God in him both to will and to work His good pleasure.  God uses His word, the Scriptures that we read, to build up our spiritual muscle.  The more scripture the believer reads, re-reads, and compares with other scripture the more tone one has in their “spiritual abs.”

As long as we are on the subject of private interpretation, consider that man, Timothy. 

What about him?  He was raised on the “private interpretation” of scripture.  Raised on it Veronica, and then was required by Paul to use it in the ministry that He had been called to.  No one checked with Peter for clearance – or anyone else except God who has revealed, verbally, only in the Scriptures. 

2 Timothy 3:15

And that from a babe thou hast known the sacred writings which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I do hope you noticed that 3:15 is one verse prior to 3:16 above.

John did not believe in Rome’s definition of “private interpretation” either. 

1st John 2:20

And ye have an anointing from the Holy One, and ye know all the things.

Then, of course, there is this passage:

1st Corinthians 2:12-16

But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words. Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, and he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he should instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Rome is like the Jews of John 6.  It is not spiritual, therefore it can neither understand or believe.  The passages above state that to understand Scripture and the will of God, you must be spiritual.  That means born again of the Spirit.  It means that you must have the anointing of God who has to indwell you and builds your spiritual “abs” from the Scriptures you study and are taught. 

No, Sister, NO!  No Scripture can be privately interpreted.  That means interpreted for one’s own benefit and twisting it from the meaning that God intended.  But the Spiritual person cannot do this and survive!  The spiritual person has God in him, teaching and disciplining him until he is perfect, which is when he goes into the presence of God in heaven

Rome and its teachings are giving you and others an expensive ride to hell.  It is not the place you will want to be, nor need you be.  Christ died once for the sins of the whole world.  That includes you, Veronica.  Christ died for your sin.  But in order for His atonement to apply to you, you must belief in Him and Him alone as your savior, intercessor, and Lord.  Christ alone, Veronica.  Christ alone, through faith alone, by grace alone, as revealed in Scripture alone.

Get on your spiritual knees, Sister.  Tell Him that you have a lifetime of belief and teaching that says I am wrong, but that you want Him to guide you to truth. Tell Him if forgiveness is ONLY in Christ alone that you want it.  You want to be forgiven for all your sin, past present and future and that you want eternal life in which God, through the Spirit, will produce in you fruit like love, joy, peace, and hope.  Yes, Veronica, you can possess that assured hope.  The hope that the Lord is coming for you.  The hope that you will be in God’s presence forever.  The hope that there will be no more sorrow, despair or sickness when you are in eternity with Him.  It is a blessed hope, Sister, blessed.  Talk to God about it, today.

Larry